http://www.illwillpress.com/tech42.html

“Keep your jobs in the U.S…. so I can understand who the fuck I’m talkin to… you bastards.”

Exactly.

Do I think there are quality problems with Call Centers… sure. Do think it can be magnified by a language issue. Of course I do. And, do I think it is a tad bigoted to refer to all Call Center workers in a country as brain-dead or morons? Yes.

I have and continue to receive poor support equally — regardless of the nationality of the person on the other end of the phone. I think it is the nature of Tier-1 support (as pointed out a long time ago) that is the root cause here. Businesses have figured out that they can save a whole lot of money by hiring non-technical people to answer phones and follow scripts. And, I imagine, it solves the vast majority of problems for which people call support (Is it plugged in? Problem solves a good number of problems.)

I don’t see the contradiction in Carl’s stances, because if the majority of outsourced centers were located in, say, Brazil, odds are there’d still be a language comprehension barrier. When one calls these centers, it’s almost always due to a problem that can’t be resolved (hence the support call) so there’s already that level of frustration, then add in the script-reading (which does happen everywhere) and then combine it with potential misunderstandings in wordings…

I think the “An American picks up the line…” comment would mean the same thing if the person was Canadian, or British, or Australian… like Carl said, there was a “grammatical link” which I can understand and relate to.

The Sox won last night.

So I get punted to Live. Mercifully, thankfully, I get back to the states. Ohio. An American picks up the line, I cut him off and describe my problem. And he starts chuckling, because he knows their India call center is staffed by script-monkeys. Worse, it is staffed by script monkeys who don’t fucking understand English. And so describing ‘blue banding and artifacts’ to them is like the fucking Obelisk in 2001: A Space Odyssey. He tells me I need warranty service.

First of all, don’t pretend this is some militaristic, narrow-minded, pro-American, bigoted screed. That’s wrong on several levels as 1) I never said I prefer Americans to anyone else, and 2) pro-nationalism is hardly solely an American trait, and 3) it’s an unworthy low blow that is neither true nor fair. You should know better than to continuously try to hammer home an invalid point, as it only pisses me off and doesn’t actually advance your fallacious argument.

the relevant part there being The analyst firm estimates that India’s current 85 percent ownership of the BPO market share could dwindle to about 45 percent by 2007

I don’t remember this being about India’s dominance of the BPO market, but your assertion that most Call Centers are located in India. I don’t remember reading that.

I don’t know why you keep denying facts, even when I point you to articles, even when my assertions are common knowledge:

http://www.siteselection.com/issues/2002/may/p284/
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/09/national/main587601.shtml
http://blog.tmcnet.com/telecom-crm/2006/09/04/kolkata-call-center-scam-indias-doing-the-right-thing.asp (the relevant part there being The analyst firm estimates that India’s current 85 percent ownership of the BPO market share could dwindle to about 45 percent by 2007.

So, you know what, fuck you. Enough, enough, enough e-fucking-nough. I don’t have a problem with Indian people. I never ever said ‘brain dead Indians’. I precisely said ‘brain dead Indian call centers.’

So again, fuck you. I have no need to continuously justify my thoughts on this subject (or any other) to you, or anyone else. However, when you attempt to cast aspersions and label me a bigot when I am not, when you continue to twist words I never even said for little more than trolling, you’ve crossed the line from debate and friendly jibes into idiocy. Idiocy I will no longer engage in on this topic.

According to you, this isn’t a Tier-1 support issue but an issue with the brain-dead Indians that work in all Call Centers in India.

As for the noise you provide to mask this disdain you feel for the Indian people… you provide no data about Corporate attentitiveness to the needs of the consumer. It’s neither factual nor relevant. Saying things are fact does not make them true (like your assertion that most call-centers have been outsourced).

It is also a fact that most call centers are outsourced to India.

A person mails the US president his grievance on medicare changes. In return, he recieves a letter with White house letterhead with the following:

Dear Mr….,

Thank you for your support.

President of US…

Seriously!

If the call centers were in Australia, I’d be criticizing them instead.

Although with considerable clutter…

First of all, don’t pretend this is some militaristic, narrow-minded, pro-American, bigoted screed. That’s wrong on several levels as 1) I never said I prefer Americans to anyone else, and 2) pro-nationalism is hardly solely an American trait, and 3) it’s an unworthy low blow that is neither true nor fair. You should know better than to continuously try to hammer home an invalid point, as it only pisses me off and doesn’t actually advance your fallacious argument.

Secondly, The time periods I was referring to would be anywhere from the late 19th century to about the 1970s, when the business globalization movement began, though vestiges of good customer service survived at many levels until the mid-1990s, when most customer service turned to shit as it was outsourced to cheap sweat-farms overseas. Don’t like that opinion? Too bad. Look at customer service trends and check the following articles detailing failures and frustrations of Indian call centers:

http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/16659.asp
http://news.com.com/For+Dell,+Indian+call+center+failure+a+lesson/2100-1001_3-5182611.html
http://digitalcommons.ilr.cornell.edu/cahrswp/7/
http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,2025288,00.html

Now, maybe I feel the nostalgia I do because I have to rely on other reports on customer service pre-1995 or so, seeing as I was not in the target customer service demographic at the time. But I also clearly remember calling Nintendo of America in 1988 about what that stupid connector was on the bottom of the NES and getting right through to a very nice lady who spoke english as her primary language and was not only happy to answer my questions, but also look up the answers to stuff she did not know.

So, what’s changed? Why in 1988 could I get a simple answer in 5 minutes, but today it take 78 minutes to get a box?

I really don’t think much has changed as far as ethics within companies/corporations. To me, this is just another example of someone viewing the past and present with bias. Think of the old guy who reminisces about how great things were when he was young and how much of a shithole the world has become. Ya, I don’t buy it.

I can’t speak to Dell Small Biz Support, but I have spent far too long on the phone/chat with them as a ‘regular user’. Then again, they know where they need to focus their efforts… You spend more, you get more. Imagine that.

Car Service Center? You mean, you are treated well outside of being screwed on the rates, right?

As for your restaurant example, I am not srue I follow. Are you trying to say that not all restaurants are the same? Heck, not even all waitstaff at a restaurant are the same? If you are, then how does that differ with support staff at a call center in India?

You can generalize people all you want. And, it might even make you feel superior. Heck, isn’t that what being American is all about?

I’m proud to be an American where at least I know I’m free, And I won’t forget the men who died who gave that right to me, And I gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today, ‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land God Bless the U.S.A.

- Most local stores in neighborhoods I have lived in.

- My car service center.

- Amazon (exception: one phone order gone very very wrong).

- Amazon Marketplace sellers (most are small stores and independent merchants who need the good customer satisfaction ratings).

- Dell Small Business Technical Support.

Restaurants have occasionally gone above and beyond, including preparing my meals so that they are completely isolated from any shellfish.

And companies in the past, such as local banks, gas stations, and other service-related outfits, knew that the key to their continued existence was good customer relations.

And if I had to pick one thing to criticize about outsourcing (other than the language barrier), it would be that the contracted companies have no vested interest in excellent customer service, or even good customer service. They are cheap, and they hire script-readers who don’t know anything. Corporations make money off your initial investment, and that is all they care about. Caveat emptor to the max.

Unfortunately for you, you are not running the company.

Companies used to care about the customer, because repeat business was always important. Now, not so much.

As for you being “entitled” to a certain level of respect, again laughable. They already got your money for the XBox, they’ve got your money for Live and they’ve got the money for the games you bought. You should be happy they even provide you with a working phone number to call for the tech support you got.

Good tech support is about priority last at just about any company. Are you going to sell your XBox or stop using their services because of this incident or their tech support? Highly unlikely and they know it. As long as they do the bare minimum and get your XBox back to you and maybe working you’re not going to stop giving the money, and again they know it.

So why should they bother changing their ways to suit you?

See where this is going? They can’t afford to pay more than $10 an hour to someone who doesn’t know an IP address from a serial number? boo hoo. Pay more, get better people.

I’m just at a loss.

I have no problem with India or people from India.

However, it is a fact that English is not the primary language there. It is also a fact that most call centers are outsourced to India.

So, if I say Indian call centers blow big fucking chunks, that does not make me racist or a bigot. It means that they need to teach English better, or we need to stop outsourcing our call centers. Period. That way, even though you might get equally brain dead people on the phone, you remove at the very least the apparent language barrier.

Secondly, if you don’t think you are a special person entitled to have your problem fixed, then that’s your problem. It speaks to a certain level of apathy inherent in most consumers. As I mentioned to Colin, warranties are not gifts. Service is not a favor. I paid for it, it’s mine. It is part of a product, and arguably the most important part. If I buy something and then I am pissed when it takes me 80 minutes just to get them to send me a box, that doesn’t mean I am impatient, it means they don’t respect me as a customer.

This is true at every call center, everywhere. The whole point is to make sure that everyone who calls goes through the same standard diagnostic routine, so that when the people who do second-line support take over, they know that the easy stuff has all been exhausted.

I’m pretty sure your real complaint is something like “the first-line support person didn’t realize that I am a SPECIAL PERSON, who is ENTITLED. i should be able to SKIP AHEAD and talk to an xbox developer, who will fix MY PROBLEM”.

It isn’t the fucking accent. IT IS THE COMPREHENSION OF BASIC WORDS LIKE ‘BLUE’, ‘BANDING’, and ‘COLOR DEPTH’.

Dude in Ohio might be a fucktard, but he will probably understand (or at least grasp the concept) when I say “There are weird blue bands, like ghost images or interference, on my screen.” Because he knows what ‘blue’ is.

He would be able to ask follow-up questions, or be able to respond in some appropriate way when I say there is a video glitch. He is MORE likely to respond properly than someone who cannot. speak. my. language.

my comment about brain-dead call centers in India

So I get punted to Live. Mercifully, thankfully, I get back to the states. Ohio. An American picks up the line…

Seems to indicate that you prefer an American… at least by reading what you wrote.

Let’s face it… your entire post has an anti-”Not American” slant to it. I have run into “heavy accents” with support persons born and living in this country. A conversation with a support tech from Tennessee comes to mind. Why couldn’t he speak proper English?

Although… hrm… now that I think about it… I have trouble with those from the UK. Especially anyone with an Irish accent.

Ok. I got it!

Let’s compile a list of Nationalities/Ethnicities that are allowed to become support personnel.

Who wants to start?

I don’t give a rat’s goddamn ass if it’s a global economy or if the entire fucking world sinks into the abyss singing koom-bah-yah. If you are serving a customer whose native language is English, UNDERSTAND ENGLISH.

Under-fucking-stand ENGLISH. If you support Spain, understand Spanish. If you support France, understand French. I am American. I speak English. I expect that when I call a support line that I was sent to by an American company selling a product whose primary market is in the United States, I will get someone who understands what my problem might be, or at least understands what a fucking ‘blue band across my screen’ means.

If it had been some moron from the States who just didn’t grasp the concept, I’d be equally pissed at him for being a fucking moron.

But no. This woman was both unfamiliar with the equipment in question AND the language I was using to describe my problem.

Cuz, I have never had an issue with an American on a tech-support line. No, not one issue. American support lines are staffed by intelligent, articulate folks with IQs well above average and pants made out of gold… and, they smell like chocolate… yes… over the phone they smell like chocolate.

Stupid India.